Exclusive: Read full interview of A Raja to Rajat Sharma in Aap Ki Adalat (Part I)

New Delhi: New Delhi: In an exclusive interview to India TV editor-in-chief Rajat Sharma on his popular ‘Aap Ki Adalat' show, former Telecom Minister A Raja opened up on a range of issues- his involvement in 2G scam, his relations with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and M Karunandhi etc.Here is the full transcript of the interview (Part I):RS: We are saying that you are responsible for the biggest scam of India. In may 2011, The TIME magazine published a list of powerful people who misused their position and you were at number 2 in that list. The number of Col Gadaafi and that infamous PM of Italy came after you.A Raja: It's unfortunate for this country. Whatever media wants to put up as the biggest corruption or monumental scam, it's largely believed on the basis of assumptions and not by the record. I'm not accusing any television channel or any media person. Whatever term they want to use, let them use it. But my sincere appeal to them is why you want to call it a scam unless and until the documents are there to prove that the assumptions are true or not. The comparison with Gaddafi is odious. Again I want to reiterate what I said at the outset. I did a revolution in the telecom sector. It is not unknown to the history that a person who did revolution is often termed as a criminal or a person who did a scam.RS: I'll give you the basis of these allegations. CAG has accused you of giving away telecom licenses at cheap rates that caused a loss of Rs 1,76000 crores to the exchequer. A Raja: The biggest constitutional crisis in the country is not addressed by any person including the highest court in the country. CAG is entitled to give a report under Article 149. Before that I must say certain provisions in the constitution are made after borrowing from English that is based on the premise that the King can do no wrong. Unfortunately, if King does a wrong, there is no solution in the constitution. CAG is a constitutional authority and its report is meant only for discussion in parliament. The report says very clearly had it been done other way…let me explain it…2G is something different…3G is something different. 2 G is only meant for voice. In other countries, there is no charge for 2G call rates and I also wanted to do the same after assuming the charge. Spectrum from 2G is different. 3G spectrum is different that carries both data and video. My decision was in accordance with the decision taken by the cabinet. It was as per the decision approved by the parliament and TRAI. RS: If your decisions were right why did SC cancel all licenses? A Raja: I will ask another question. Why the President of India gave a reference to the SC that the SC judgment was not in accordance with the policy. What more do you want? So the cancellation of licenses is not in accordance with the policies, according to the president.RS: So CAG is wrong, SC is wrong, only Raja is right. A Raja: No, No… I can't say SC is wrong. CAG gave a report to the parliament and parliament rejected it, not Raja. SC gave a judgment; president is not accepting the interpretation. Why are you accusing only me of not accepting it?RS: I will tell you why? Cutoff date was 1st October 2007. On 24 September, a press release was issued and cutoff date changed. You said the application received till 26 September will only be accepted. And you issued licenses on basis of that.A Raja: There is confusion. There were not two cutoff dates at all. TRAI recommended to me that go for new operators as there was a cartel of existing operators. The law says that tarrif has to be increased or reduced by competition. So it's not in the minister's hand to bring down the tariff. TRAI recommended that since tariffs were not coming down; inject competition by bringing in new operators. After this, I put it in public domain that those who are intending to file for licenses, please apply on or before this date. So the first date was to file for license. The date 1st October was meant for receiving applications only. I got 575 applications. The spectrum was limited. We thought we can't give license to 575 applicants. Then the press release appeared on 25th September. Therefore please don't confuse on the two dates. We said we can't process more applications received after 25 Sep given the scarcity of spectrum. They will be considered if more spectrum is released. RS: The accusation is that you changed the dates to give license to your friends and stop others.A Raja: see, the spectrum was allocated on first come, first serve basis. I could not help my friends. It was done like A, B,C,D. I could not jump to X, Y,Z… The order is there. RS: The impression is that you gave information to your friends that this is the cutoff date, apply and get the license. A Raja: This is not in the evidence.RS: I'll tell you what the CAG report says. It says Hon'ble Minister of communication& IT , for no apparent logical or valid reasons, ignored the advice of ministry of law , ministry of finance, avoided deliberation of telecom commission to allocate 2G spectrum. This was given to make it flexible criteria and procedures adopted to benefit a few operators.A Raja: I'm the first minister to make the law more stringent. Those who did not get licenses turned against me.RS: Not only operators, P Chidamram said that he had advised you against allocating licences.A Raja: No, show me the letter. Different branches are working in the govt. A principal may not know what is happening in different branches. Similarly, PM or FM are entitled to write a letter. Finance Secy D Subbarao wrote a letter to my secy (telecom secy) asking whether the entry fee of 1650 crore fixed in 2001 or 2003 can be revised or not. He said that you apprise me and till then stop your proceedings. The telecom scy replied that these decisions were taken in cabinet and it was reiterated not to change the entry fee. Even TRAI had advised against changing the entry fee. It was approved by telecom commission. It was placed before P Chidambaram and he said that he wanted to see all the orders. He saw everything and closed the chapter. In spite of that, a charge is filed against me that I ignored the advice of FM. I asked the court to investigate if I ignored the advice but till this date, there is no reply. RS: I have a list of letters that you had written to PM and the replies sent by PM. On 2nd November, you wrote a letter in the morning, the PM replied in the afternoon but you wrote a new letter in the evening. The result is that whatever Raja wants in the telecommunication ministry will be done. A Raja: I wrote a letter for some purpose. He wrote a letter for some other purpose. I replied to his letter. RS: And your reply was that whatever Raja wants will be done, nobody can intervene. A Raja: See, PM has a very big office. There is a joint secy for every dept who looks after everything. It's not a joke that I'll cheat the PM. The addl secretary told the court in front of the CBI, the content of the reply sent by Raja is by and large is correctly reflected in accordance with the policy and statute of the deptRS: They are all scared by you.A Raja: Why? How can they be scared by me? I was in jail that time. I was not given hearing opportunity by CAG and SC. Even media did not give me that opportunity. RS: CAG said that Raja issued 85 licenses to 13 companies that were ineligible.A Raja: Very good question. CBI says the companies are ineligible. The Law Ministry wrote a letter to the judge and CBI saying the companies are eligible. What nonsense is going on in the country? Two limbs of the government are taking different positions. RS: But everyone believes that the policy of first come , first serve basis was to hel and support those who bribed you.A Raja: I was arrested on Feb 02 2011. On 11 Feb, the TOI published a story that said that Raja has 3000 crores stacked abroad. I took the newspaper to the judge and said that I want to file a case saying that if CBI and other agencies could prove that I had even Rs 1 disproportionate to my known source of income then I'll not fight the case and I will live my entire life in jail. In 2013, CBI admitted before the court that Raja doesn't have a single pie overseas. RS: Do you think that people of this country would believe that you didn't make Rs 1 or Dollar 1?A Raja: I took oath as a minister, on the constitution. You can't blame me for committing a wrong just on the basis of public perception. I did a revolution in telecom ministry. RS: PM Manmohan had a very clean image. Because of you, his face was blackened.A Raja: I have proved in the court that I'm honest. A person's credibility is all because of him. Under the Prevention of corruption Act, three things are essential. A public servant or a minister should not have unlawful or illicit money. CBiI admitted Raja has no illicit money. The second thing is that there is should be no exchequer loss to the govt. D Subbarao told the court there is no exchequer loss. Now the court is going on the third point whether any favour was done to ineligible company. The law ministry says they are all eligible.RS: PM advised you spectrum should be auctioned but you ignored it.A Raja: No, it's not true. THE PM did not say for auctioning of spectrum. COAI had sent some options to PM who forwarded it to me. The PM can't change the law approved by parliament. The law prohibits auctioning spectrum. It says spectrum is not for making money. I replied that auction can't be done as long as the law is not changed.